A Pink Floyd and a Painter

Tom Ue in conversation with Will Shutes, author and curator.

Tom Ue: It is nice to be having this conversation with you. I will like to begin by congratulation your biography, Barrett, The Definitive Visual Companion!, of Syd Barret, painter, rock musician and founding member of the band, Pink Floyd.

Will Shutes: Thanks, Tom.

T.U.: The “Barrett” group has a following of almost 2,900 likes (including mine) on Facebook.  Some of the conversations there reveal not only personal and musical interests in Barrett, but also artistic, historical, and sociological ones.  What camps do you fall under?

W.S.: Well, prior to the book and exhibition, possibly the only way one would arrive at Syd would be via his music, which was the case for me. I had the same experience with Pink Floyd’s Echoes compilation as an earlier generation had with the Relics one, which was the realization that someone called Barrett had produced some of the most memorable work, but was apparently not around. That led me into the various books (and in fact the history of interest in Barrett is fascinating in its own right) about him, but I felt they were all dropping short of the mark. It has been a byword for a long time that he had gone off to pursue his painting – I simply wanted to look into that as a way of representing him as accurately as possible. He is very much a mercurial figure, and in his uniqueness cannot be tied too easily to sociological contexts, but his place in history is assured. Personally, I look at him almost solely as an artist. I don’t ignore the music he made- and it’s important to remember that both the book and the exhibition have an incredible array of photos of his music career – but the art is my focus.

T.E.: Do you see social network media like Facebook and Twitter as particularly accommodating spaces for Barrett fans to meet?

W.S.: Barrett studies has often been an underground world, which is as well suited to the internet as it was to fanzines. So from that point of view, they are good spaces in which to meet, and in which to rally support if you are producing something, although there have been cases (not involving me) in which some fanbases have been overly critical of some people’s work.

T.U.: What do you see as being distinctive and particularly enduring about Barrett’s music?

W.S.: From what seems a remarkably young age Barrett was well-versed in a number of disparate influences – from Bo Diddley to AMM to the I Ching to nursery rhyme – which he managed to fuse into something fairly impossible. The range of influence, in his case, made for a unique sound. That said, his most pared-down solo work could be standalone written pieces. His experiments with cut-ups, for example, place him into a strong literary tradition.

T.U.: What moved you to write a book about him?

W.S.: The research project grew into something bordering obsession, I will admit. But it was also, although not quite a sense of putting wrongs to right, of doing justice to someone in whom I was very interested. I wouldn’t say that I sat and thought “I’ll write a book”; rather, it just wrote itself once the research was in place. It nearly literally wrote itself without me, as along the line I found that Russell Beecher, my co-author, had the permissions in place to produce this book. Fortunately, we made contact and combined the different elements of research we had worked on. But in all this, Russell and I don’t see it as our book so much as Syd’s – it’s his chance to show his work for a change.

T.U.: What is definitive about it?

W.S.: From the point of view of the art, every image of his work (which includes pieces now destroyed or missing) is in there, so it is the catalogue raisonne. Furthermore, it is reproduced so finely that one couldn’t hope for better examples of the imagery, without standing next to the items in question. Also definitive is the extraordinary coverage Russell has found of Syd’s whole music career, by way of numerous unseen photographs. There is a real sense in which, through its pictures, the book tells as much as is possible about Syd’s life.

T.U.: I have heard that first publications carry considerable sentimental significance for writers.  What will you remember from working on this one?

W.S.: I can well imagine that. Naturally, the Syd story is a moving one to a lot of people, and a number of moments in the book’s production have had their effect, most notably when I spoke to someone, who has not been contacted about this before, who knew him for 15 of his so-called lost years. Another highlight was the discovery of a very striking photograph of Syd with one of his lost paintings from 1964, which Russell and I agree, defines our project. Along the way, I’ve met and made friends with a large number of people who knew Syd, and the exhibition’s opening night was simply fantastic, especially seeing the huge numbers of people who enjoyed themselves. This isn’t the end of the road, though – it’s with me for life, and I’m looking for new pictures constantly.

T.U.: How long did it take to collect, to acquire the rights of, and to put together so many letters and images?

W.S.: Fortunately, I was not in charge of getting permission to reproduce anything, although I am pleased to say that the Barrett Estate have been generous to us. The main thing was that we displayed that we had an honest product, that we knew what we were doing. I think it took some time for contracts to be signed, but so be it. Syd’s works did need cataloguing, and as such the process of obtaining rights needed to be worked out. It was all very amicable.

Russell certainly spent a good few years tracking down the range of photographs which he has edited. I don’t know the ins and outs of their copyrights, but again, all very amicable. We made sure from the start that this was to be an official project with full backing (which is another thing which makes it definitive).

T.U.: Tell us about this process.

W.S.: The internet, I must say, was both a blessing and a curse, the latter because there were a number of completely sourceless images online. I spent many, many months trying to find what they were. Along the way, at least one turned out to be something spurious. It was not until about a fortnight before our deadline that I tracked down a few images, which I thought might elude me. Fortunately all bases were covered though. But amidst all that mystery, a high percentage of Syd’s works which are extant were given away to family or ex-girlfriends, because he wasn’t possessive of his art. The owners, I’m pleased to say, were all very responsive to my project. Other works were sold at auction after Syd died. To find those, if I didn’t know the owners already, I contacted the auction house, who kindly forwarded a letter, as did another auction house or two who had sold things previously. The letters were slightly easier because we had made friends with the two recipients, who are two of Syd’s ex-girlfriends. We’ve made friends with them over the years, and they have very kindly offered their personal letters for both the book and the exhibition, again because I think they recognised what we were trying to achieve.

T.U.: There are two editions of Barrett: a Classic and a Signature.  How did their production processes differ?

W.S.: The difference between the two is that the Signature edition has an extra volume, which consists of a photo shoot of Pink Floyd right before they were signed, with an introduction by the photographer Irene Winsby. The Signature is presented in a hard, hinged case, with its two volumes bound in leather, and with a signature from me, Russell, and more importantly one of Syd’s brothers or sisters. It’s a beautiful object. That said, so’s the Classic edition, which comes in a slipcase. Everything was printed in Italy to a very high standard. The printers even sent us photos of them at work- clearly they enjoyed it too. It was very important to the publisher that all these hard-earnt photos and artworks be reproduced as best as possible – and that’s what’s happened.

T.U.: In addition to working on this book, I have heard that you are working on a PhD at University College London.  What is it on?

W.S.: Yes, although admittedly it’s taken a bit of a hit from the Barrett work! It’s on the influence of film on the fiction of J. G. Ballard.

T.U.: Do your thinking and writing about Barrett inform your current research?  How so?

W.S.: Yes I think so, in terms of methodology. Firstly, because now I have a sense of how important it is to immerse yourself in your subject. Secondly, because both are interdisciplinary – with Syd it was a case of seeing musician as artist, with Ballard it’s a case of seeing writer as film-buff.

T.U.: Do you see living and working in London as having significant impacts on your tastes and research interests in music and literature?  How so?

W.S.: Quite possibly, although I’d say more generally that it is place, rather than London specifically, which informs my research. The Syd work has been in fact quite reliant upon a working knowledge of Cambridge (the place and its twentieth-century context), although there has been some London psychogeography too, with regard to both Syd’s art school/Pink Floyd years and his late visits to the capital. For my PhD, I’ll look at Ballard’s afterlives, which will feature Iain Sinclair, who is of course inseparable from London. I am not from London myself, but am fascinated by it, and I suppose a lot of the arts are tied up with it.

T.U.: This book coincides with a month-long Syd Barrett Art and Letters exhibit at the Idea Generation Gallery in London.  For those of us not in London or who haven’t been yet, can you tell us a bit about it?

W.S.: The exhibition is to an extent a manifestation of the book. As a unique chance (and it is unique) to see the artworks, most of which are on display, it cannot be compared. A number of letters which aren’t in the book are present, too, as well as very large reproductions of some photographs of Syd from the publication. Book and exhibition complement each other, and were produced more or less by the same people. Of the surviving artworks, there are something like 40 out of 50 on display, which I can tell you is logistically no mean feat. We also have some peculiar objects Syd gave one ex-girlfriend to accompany specific paintings. The staff at the IGG have been amazing, putting it all in place, and everything looks great in its space. I know that the family and friends were very pleased with it – and that’s the main thing.

T.U.: What’s next for you?

W.S.: I think I’ll have to play catch-up on the PhD to be honest! But this has been a very rewarding experience, so, whilst keeping on the Syd trail, I am looking for new projects, and will aim to write more and more widely. We feel as if we’ve reached a wide audience with this work, whilst maintaining the highest standards possible, and that appeals to me. The combination of exhibition and book has also been successful.

T.U.: There’s much to be proud off with Barrett.  Congratulations again!  If I am lucky, I will get to collaborate with you on something.  Best wishes with you future endeavours!

W.S.: Thanks Tom, you too.